![]() JW: He said to me, ‘Can’t we just see movies about rich people?’ He was hardly a hippie. But while we were all very left wing politically, he was looking at Vogue magazine and trying to pick out flowers for the weekend. If he could have gotten married he might have just looked at it as another excuse to have a party. Divine would have liked it because he loved weddings and spending money and flowers and everything, so he probably would have gotten married. And it was thought of as the most ridiculous joke in the world, but it was the first time I’d ever even heard of a gay wedding, it was in Provincetown, MA. What would he think about the state of things now? JW: It’s funny because in the early 1970s, as a complete joke, his boyfriend at the time had a gay wedding. So much has happened for LGBTQ rights since Divine’s death. We all were oddballs, I guess, but we all somehow stayed together and remained friends forever. Divine was an underdog, and he was very much tormented in school because he was very effete. Five-feet-tall, 500 pounds, it didn’t matter, there was space for you. PM: He also was revolutionary with the drag queens because no longer did you have to be a showgirl, you could be anything. And now every drag queen, every one that’s successful today is cutting edge. JW: Divine frightened drag queens because he would show up with a chainsaw and Van Smith would put fake scars on his face, wearing mini skirts when you’re 300 pounds. They were square then, they wanted to be Miss America and be their mothers. JW: His legacy was that he made all drag queens cool. PM: He looked great, he just happened to be a heavier man. Except towards the end, when he wore men’s suits and looked like a very handsome, distinguished man. ![]() Ru Paul started a long time ago, I’ve got to give him some credit, and Ru Paul also has a great look out of drag, something that Divine struggled with. How do you define his legacy? JW: I think he changed drag queens forever. People forget that when I originally made Hairspray, he was going to play the mother and the daughter, like The Parent Trap. It probably would have been hugely successful. The day after he died, he was supposed to be shooting Married, With Children, where he was playing a gay man on a huge, hit television show, which they had never done before. If he was alive, he might have been too expensive for me. JW: People ask, ‘What would Divine be like today?’ No one knows that, but, if he was alive, he would have played Big Ethel in A Dirty Shame, he would have played the grandmother part. PM: He said to my son when he graduated from high school, from Boys Latin, ‘What do you want?’ and he said, ‘I want to go around the world.’ And said, ‘We’ll leave Monday.’ And they did. JW: And Divine took your son to Europe for the first time to work in his nightclub, to tour with him. Packages would come from Herrod’s, from all over the place. PM: I have two children, and Divine was my son’s godfather. And also, when you have your first success, which we did with those first movies basically, it’s incredibly exciting, and he was a huge part of it. It’s just that he was in our personal lives. We call it “Disgraceland.” So we’ll all be together. ![]() So did Pat, so did Mink Stole, so did Dennis Dermody. But, we’re going to spend eternity with him because I bought a grave stone where Divine’s buried. JW: I’m shocked every day still that he’s dead because he had been such a big part of my life. It’s been 27 years since Divine died, but I’m sure you both still think about him frequently. On the eve of his 70th birthday on October 19, we chatted with his friends and collaborators John Waters and Pat Moran-who are part of the iconic Dreamlanders-about his hilarious moments, professionalism, and not-exactly-thrifty spending habits. He was known for tasteless deeds in movies such as Pink Flamingos, outlandish costumes and eye makeup, and for being what People magazine called “the drag queen of the century.” Divine, who was born Harris Glenn Milstead and grew up in Towson, died in 1988 of a heart attack when he was 42.
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